I have noticed multiple threads lately in regards to seemingly non-dysautonomia related issues like sleep, dreams, night vision, bladder issues, that morning hangover fatigue, etc. I say non-dys because I originally only thought dysautonomia would have effects on my heart and blood pressure. Well, this is only my own private medical research due to my issues, but I want to share some things with you in hopes of easing your mind by informing you. If we can't be well, we should be well informed. If you have the patience to read it all, this will tie many of these things together. If not, google or wikipedia search cranial nerves, pons, enteric or sympathetic or parasympathetic nervous systems for yourself and try to stay awake wading through it all like I did. Ain't easy, let me tell you.

To begin with, I am going to oversimplify the info I am about to share with you all. Not because you, MY FORUM FAMILY, can't understand it, I am going to oversimplify so that my brain doesn't explode while I try to write this down. So, let's get started. The first thing is the function of the section of the brain called the pons. The pons relays sensory information between the cerebellum and cerebrum; aids in relaying other messages in the brain; controls arousal, and regulates respiration. In some ways, the pons has a role in dreaming. This section of the brain plays a role in passing info between the sensory and autonomic side as well. What this means to us is that it is a bridge between the cranial nerves, sympathetic, parasympathetic, and central nervous system functions.

These functions are running closer together than I realized. Cranial nerves control input of the 5 senses, overlapping vagus nerve functions, eye movement, speech, swallowing, and our sense of motion, balance, and gravity. The sympathetic is fight or flight info, which includes the priming of the body for waking activity, urination, bowel movements, pupil diameter, sweat, piloerector response (goosebumps), the heart, respiration,digestion, and has some connection to every part of your body. Parasympathetic, or rest and digest nerves, involves localized organ responses like head, neck, chest, stomach blood vessels, salivation, tears, eye muscles, viscera & glands(liver, spleen, colon, kidneys, bladder, genitals). Our ANS then integrates external environmental stimuli with stimuli from within the body.

In conclusion, dysautonomia may cause corrupted data to be transmitted within the brain that can cause symptoms like, but not just these, the symptoms listed: excessive drool while asleep, night sweats, poor sleep, talking and moving excessively while asleep(I thrash, yell, and curse while dreaming myself, because our nerves aren't completely shutting down our body's responses to dream stimuli), disrupted BP/pulse rate/weight loss or gain/body temperature/metabolism/fluid or electrolyte balance, male/female sexual dysfunction,glucose imbalances, muscle weakness, sweaty palms, poor kidney filtration, orthostatic/exercise/heat intolerance, urinary dribbling, loss of appetite, diarrhea, constipation, bloating, nausea, vomiting, heartburn, POTS, lack of warning signs of low blood sugar(shakes, sweats, & palpitations), brain fog, memory issues, fine motor skill losses, sensory deficits, or even overreactive pain responses (called allodynia).

Too much information, I know. But I am only trying to help. I appreciate all of you so much that if any of this helps you or connects the dots for you then I feel like I am repaying the debt I owe to all here who have been goood to me. God bless. X's and O's to you. I am wiped out from the typing and going to lie down now. Hope you can use this stuff.

Michael -

Thanks for taking the time to type out that post. It was really interesting and informative. I'm going to share it with my doc. I wonder if all those overlapping connections cause that buzzy, "I'm losing it" sensation when I get adrenaline surges or too much stimulation. I'm glad you took the time to do the research - hope it didn't set you back!

I just had to remember where I put my research. I did this for myself when I began having most of the symptoms that I put in that list at the end. One of my ##$!@*$$ doctors told me that it was all in my head because no 1 illness could lead to so many problems. So I dropped about 30 pages of medical paper abstracts, medical journal articles, and medical textbook excerpts on the exam table and said, Oh Really! I had heard the in your head/faking it/not as bad as you say argument enough times that I had gone to that doc prepared to make him feel as stupid as that makes me feel. He contacted some colleagues who took my case on and ended up being the ones who diagnosed me.

It wiped me out because my symptoms are really giving it to me heavy these days. I am either laying down or using my chair 24/7 for the last 4 days. I am losing like 5 pounds a night due to night sweats and then a couple of extra pounds due to nausea and vomiting. I had just been sitting up too long when I wrote out the post. It was worth the aggravation though because I made myself suck it up and stay upright for a while. I get very depressed when I get confined to bed from all this garbage. Thanks for the concern though.

Michael-

Thank you so much for providing all that information! It is GREATLY appreciated!

Lynn

Corrupted data is my term for nerve signals that are either improperly sent by the transmitter end, the sort of thing that registers on nerve conduction and EMG testing, or improperly received at the processing end, for which there is currently no reliable test to determine. In some individuals, this may be disruption of the neurotransmitter agent, cholinergic or adrenergic, whatever. In others, the nerves in the arms and legs send pain messages without being stimulated or too strong a message for a small stimulus/too weak for strong stimuli. In my case, the faulty processing takes place at the crossroads of where all autonomic/sensory/motor signals must pass, the pons and brainstem. My data is corrupted at a level where normal "all is well" signals are processed as your skin has the worst sunburn in the history of man to the 10th power and on steroids and, by the way, you are on fire and feel as if you must be walking on the sun. Hugs, kisses, and cuddling are excruciating. At the same time, I can't sense dangerous input properly. So I have scalded my entire body because I couldn't tell the temp of the shower/bath water. Further, some of us have good sympathetic nerve responses and corrupted parasympathetic responses, or vice versa.

The sympathetic side controls fight or flight and the parasympathetic does so with rest and digest. One acts as the accelerator, the other as the brake. Too much of one without the other and the entire body functioning process is dangerously out of balance. Over stimulation of just one side will have bad consequences. Unchecked, these stress response reactions that normally self regulate can have tremendous downside for us. For instance,the fight or flight response physically causes things such as: Acceleration of heart and lung action(heart races,out of breath), Inhibition of stomach and intestinal action(nausea, heartburn), General effect on the sphincters of the body(constipation), Constriction of blood vessels in many parts of the body, Liberation of nutrients for muscular action, Dilation of blood vessels for muscles(puffy well defined veins all over, especially the extremities), Inhibition of salivation and Lacrimal gland which is responsible for tear production, Dilation of pupil, Relaxation of bladder, Inhibition of erection,Auditory Exclusion (loss of hearing), and Tunnel Vision (loss of peripheral vision). If all of these pedal to the metal reactions aren't slowed by the brakes, dangerous imbalances will occur. Prolonged stress responses may result in chronic suppression of the immune system, leaving the sufferer vulnerable to infection by bacteria and viruses. Similarly, the reverse effect of overactive parasympathetic impulses can be very unhealthy and, due to the functions governed, embarrassing. The visceral tissues in the pelvis that the PSN control include: urinary bladder, ureters, urinary sphincter, anal sphincter, uterus, prostate, glands, vagina and penis. Unconsciously, the PSN will cause peristaltic movements of the ureters helping to move urine from the kidneys into the bladder and move feces down the intestinal tract and upon necessity, the PSN will help you excrete urine from the bladder or defaecate. Overstimulation here can therefore cause incontinence, diarrhea, and male and female sexual difficulties like ejaculation during urination or BM's or lack of female ability to facilitate sperm reaching an egg or may cause sex to be painful for the female.

So all of us dysautomaniacs, AIN'T LIFE GRAND!!

quote:

Originally posted by Rosie:
I wasn't sure exactly what you meant by 'corrupted data'. Have you had an injury?

If you haven't had a Sleep Study, you may want to consider having one.

The inability to feel pain must be frightening for you.

No physical injury, just an illness that blew things all to h e double hockey sticks.

My sleep study was, and the latest one is, completely normal. Not to worry though, the Navy considers me 100% disabled anyway.

I either cannot get the proper stimuli for pain from hot and cold temps, which isn't frightening, or, as I stated about kisses, hugs, and cuddling (talk about taking the fun out of fatherhood and marriage), I have Allodynia where the slightest touch to the surface of my skin is like being skinned alive. The allodynia is constant yet varies in how severe it is. Sometimes, it is too much and others, it is so over the top I end up lying in the floor in tears. That is sort of scary, but it is more than anything else, more isolating than all of my autonomic issues put together. To be in love with someone and to love your children and not be able to touch and be touched without crying out or recoiling from the pain is the reason why I call myself the bubbleboy. As you can guess, that sort of problem is worse than feeling no pain at all. Breezes, sunlight, my clothes, the ceiling fan, air conditioning, the sheets, a bump in the mattress, a wrinkle in the fitted sheet on the mattress are all so painful that it is beyond description. Once, my siberian husky walked past me and his fur brushed my arm and it felt like having my arm ripped open by a cheese grater. At least when I laid down on the floor to cry, he rested his head on my chest until I could stand up again. Touching my skin anywhere leaves goose bumps where the contact was. You could, if I am under heavy enough sedation, actually write your name on me by brushing your finger against me. My kids do this when the pain sensation is present but not too severe. It is a game for us. I have to find a way to laugh at this or I would cry all the time. It is sort of like having a million microscopic knives cutting you all the time. I tense up so much from these insane pain levels that my jaw muscles are swollen and dislocate my jawbone at the hinge joint on both sides from time to time. Not that it is all bad, though. This overstimulation of the pain response is a constant affirmation that I am alive and not having a bad dream I can't wake from. Also, I have learned to treasure every moment of contact with the wife and kids that I can handle, because I will be d@mned if pain will stop me from showing my love to them and accepting their affections back.

Oh, Michael. . . Your signature including "with thorns even" makes more sense to me now! So many things in life aren't fair, and your circumstances seem so totally unfair!

Your posts are an inspiration to me!

i have a question. i have been diagnosed with autonomic nervous system dysfunction, but i really think i only have sympathetic nervous dysfunction. i have a problem with every single thing that michael describes in what the sympathetic NS controls (even goosebump issues!), but i don't really have issues with any other aspect of ANS.
is this possible? does anyone know what this means?

quote:

Originally posted by GracieTiger:
i have a question. i have been diagnosed with autonomic nervous system dysfunction, but i really think i only have sympathetic nervous dysfunction. i have a problem with every single thing that michael describes in what the sympathetic NS controls (even goosebump issues!), but i don't really have issues with any other aspect of ANS.
is this possible? does anyone know what this means?

The sympathetic nervous system falls under the heading of the autonomic nervous system. There are some diseases that apply solely to that side of the ANS and you might be able to isolate which one through some research with search engines if you have the patience for it. I would also caution you that sometimes you present symptoms to a doc that don't fit any known thing that is already widely accepted by the medical community. Addressing your issues as autonomic nervous system dysfunction could be a way of defining the city and state of your illness, just not the street address.

quote:

Originally posted by mollie:
Oh, Michael. . . Your signature including "with thorns even" makes more sense to me now! So many things in life aren't fair, and your circumstances seem so totally unfair!

Cyrano de Bergerac was referring to bowing to no man if it would cost him his self respect and simple human dignity. He said it poetically, but all he really was saying is,"I will be happy with my life and the good, bad, & the pain of it, but let me face my life on my own terms with my spirit unbroken." I think I have read that play a thousand times but never appreciated the feelings behind that until I was sick. I really wish, in a way, that I didn't appreciate as much as I do.

GracieTiger and Bubbleboy,

Have either one of you ever heard of RSD or CRPS? You both sound like it could describe your conditions.

RSD stands for Reflex Sympathetic Dystrophy and CRPS is just the new name that is being used for the same condition.

www.rsdhope.org is one of the premier sites for information on it. Please let me know what you think.

Judi

Bubbleboy - you may now join nitekitty and Rosie as a resident rocket scientist of this group (in my humble opinion). Thanks for all the very helpful information....

Wow, your post brought tears to my eyes (again). You are such a brave person and are confronting your situation with such class. I truly cannot imagine what it would be like not to be able to hug my kids or husband when I want to. Yet again, my situation has been put into perspective for me. I will be praying that you find something that will help you very, very soon and that awful pain will go away.
I have not had pain like you are experiencing but right around the time I was diagnosed with POTS, I started having pain in my back. I kept telling everyone it was as if I had a REALLY bad sunburn on my upper back yet there was no rash or redness. It was the strangest thing. It lasted for about a week. We even thought it might be shingles but there was no rash, just this awful burning. I have only had it one other time. I started having heart issues right around that time. I always wondered if there might be a connection. I also will get goosebumps (without associated coldness) in the strangest spots. All of a sudden, I'll get them on one arm or down one leg or the side of my face. No pain is usually associated with them - just the bumps - weird.

Anyway, I'm glad you're on this forum.....you are an inspiration.

Originally posted by GracieTiger:
i have a question. i have been diagnosed with autonomic nervous system dysfunction, but i really think i only have sympathetic nervous dysfunction. i have a problem with every single thing that michael describes in what the sympathetic NS controls (even goosebump issues!), but i don't really have issues with any other aspect of ANS.
is this possible? does anyone know what this means?

Mvp with dys, also known as mvp syndrome, is due to an imbalance in the nervous system. Although the predominant symptoms you have appear to be dominated by the sympathetic side, it must always be considered as well that your parasympathetic side is damaged. By that I mean that either the sympathetic could be in overdrive or the parasympathetic could be too damaged to counteract the sympathetic processes.

My sleep studies have been normal. Breathing and brain waves, stages of sleep and all that, they register scientifically as normal. Yelling, talking, or even gibberish during dream states is not a sign of a sleep disorder in everyone and is harmless and temporary in most cases. Not my opinion, the opinion of the sleep specialists who checked me out and the materials that they gave me or I found for myself.

The thrashing I speak of is not what you may think it is. It is a muscular spasm/twitch issue that occurs in and out of REM sleep. It is not a physical reaction to dream actions, which would be considered more serious. It isn't like Restless Legs Syndrome or Periodic Limb Movement Disorder. It is a sleeping continuation of the issues I have with parts of my motor nerve system. I have twitches and spasms while awake. My index fingers often give the impression that I am conducting my own private orchestra. Once asleep, the spasm/twitching process continues but without the restraint of my waking thoughts being present to lessen the problem.

Thanks for the concern though.

Wow, bubble Michael-

I can so relate. I used to wake up talking, screaming (which I never do awake) and even with tears on my pillow. But, that has become rare. The rest u describe, even the Allodynia, sounds very familiar. I have a question, do u get that in your forearms on the inside part? Even the touch of a feather could hurt it sometimes, which seems strange for a person with neuropathy. MY dad gets it too, but we thought it was a disc problem. Also, what do u make of this little irony. I have a lesion in my pons. Wasnt there before. It's like a swollen blood vessel (vascular again!), they say it needs to be watched. The POTS neuro was a bit surprised no one has connected that to my NE levels. I doubt one operates on the pons, given its location. Weird, if ya know about neuroanatomy and physiology. What say u?